Three Weeks In

So it's been three weeks in Sansar now and I have had a great time and learned a lot but ready to come back to SL (not that I really left). I proved a few points and made a few waves (all good as stagnant isn't a great place to be) but ---

homemade hair and glasses
I gave myself a month and it will be almost that by the time I get all that I have made up in the store. I don't expect to sell a lot right now but it is good for folks to have choices. And that was part of my plan.

I suspect I will return in a bit to see how things are going and maybe build another experience. December (if you aren't doing the advent calendars) is fairly calm. Maybe then.
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I made my experience much like it would be in SL. That didn't sit well for some folks that are deeply enmeshed in PBR and Phong (different look to the graphics) but personally I feel like the only way Sansar will "make it" will be by appealing to a wider audience that VR.  My site is made for the desktop folks and I am happy to state that.   It seems like The Lab has figured that out also judging by some changes of late.

It is definitely a fun place to vacation for free and play and learn some new skills. No argument there.
So venture over if you want a change of scenery.

Ranch Life

A little tardy, I am posting this here -- a copy from the forums.

A bit over two weeks of working everyday (with lots of things already made of course for SL) and I have published my first experience.

I was a bit worried as we all know about those 30 minute downloads and no one (NO ONE) was willing to give any hints on "Best Practices" and downloads.  Happily the site seems to have an average download speed of about 15 seconds which is pretty much unheard of in Sansar :D. So I am a happy gal.  I learned a lot and definitely got my feet wet. 

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The mesh is made in Blender with Cycles textures (natch) which is definitely NOT the norm for Sansar. I has a different look than the other experiences I have visited, more dreamy (my environment setting probably has a bit to do with that).  I pretty much used my SL knowledge of how to build a fast loading an unlaggy site -- and happily it worked. 
  
So stop by and wander around if you are out and about. I am happy to answer any building questions.    
RANCH LIFE   (not sure if I am supposed to put in an "outside" link here but you should be able to find it -- or poke me).  

Two Weeks In

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This copied from a post on the SL forums for Sansar folks.

I have been working in Sansar every day all day for two weeks now. My experience (mostly items I had made for SL or other platforms and updated) is almost complete. I have had a great time building and I love the look. 

To answer @animats question more fully now that I know more -- I do not believe Sansar is any easier for uploading mesh than Second Life. Indeed the uploader is picker in that any unused materials OR UV maps (just discovered that today) left in your file when you make your model to export will cause grave issues. 

That's not a bad thing. It is easy to fix those issues in a few clicks once you know they are required. And adding those steps to my workflow will make my blender files neater for both platforms.  It's nothing you would see in a finished product, but neatness is a good thing. 

I have built my first experience much like I would build a quarter sim installation in SL. Sometimes the textures were a bit larger and I added normal maps to quite a few items, but all in all I wasn't trying for "new", just "prettier". And prettier it is all because of the atmosphere. Turn that off (availability in edit mode) and SL looks better - LOL.

In general I made my build with "game assets" in mind. I believe it will load quickly even for those with less than stellar download speeds. I won't know that for sure until published. I doubt I will redo it if it is slower than I would like --- other than turning off some normal maps perhaps. Either way it is a good benchmark as to what you can do for good loading times. 

And that brings me to my biggest worry about Sansar -- and nothing new here.  The loading times can be painful even with a 20mps connection (very good for my part of the world).  I went to a much advertised privately built experience this afternoon as a test of the cache system which someone told me would make it difficult for me to actually KNOW how fast my experience would load.

I clicked on ENTER and waited. I waited TWELVE FULL MINUTES  with the "loading assets" only half way done before I gave up and went out to water the garden. When I came back 20 minutes later I had arrived.  To TEST (you know how I like to test) I exited the scene, closed the Sansar viewer and waiting a minute or two then logged in again directly to that experience thinking it would load faster.  The bottom line? Well I waited twelve minutes again and then closed the viewer.

IF this doesn't get better, I can't see Sansar going too far. The official Sansar Studios sites I have visited load in about two minutes for me -- this with a couple of SL avatars on as well. That's fine. I can live with that. Some private experiences were in that same timeframe. They were small and not too exciting but at least I wasn't going out making breakfast and washing dishes while I waited to visit.

I guess it is no surprise that some folks are going overboard on "pretty" and yes the sim was pretty, just not worth waiting half an hour for.  So MIDDLE GROUND. That's what I am going for. I am hoping (and I will likely put in a request) that LL might add icons on the "desktop friendly" quickly downloading experiences. If not, I can see folks coming in to try and leaving lickety slipt. Honestly I would NOT have waited all that time for the scene to open had I not been testing.  

I am still spending my entire month of August over there. I have a ton of stuff to upload to the store (figured it would be better to have a link to see things as I always like to SEE things). I don't expect to sell a bunch now. I am there for the future, much like Kitely keeps sending me checks most weeks *wink*.  

After that I will play with more hair and jewelry just for fun.

PS. think I figured out the problem with the house from hell upload -- a multiple UV map thing and the Sansar uploader takes the FIRST of your UVmaps and not the one USED and turned on --- so now I know and I will likely remake. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe not :D. 

Philosophy and Landforms - Day 6

Six days of work and research minus one day of redoing pivot points (sigh).  Click for larger photo.


I decided yesterday to slow down some. Redoing a dozen or more items albeit not completely was not on my fun things to do list. I typically charge forth and work frenetically on new projects. Sansar holds no difference.

So instead of completing my first experience in a week, I will take two -- or more; who knows.

One of the problems with all unpoliced platforms is that it is easy to go overboard. Too many tris, too many textures -- they add up and you get those long load times. For me, if that progress bar isn't moving along quickly, it's simply too long.

So far my experience is loading very quickly (I have a 20mbps connection which isn't super speedy these days and have three avatars on hanging around and working in two platforms).

I want to keep it that way.  I am adding normal maps to the builds as they seem to work better here and since we have the power to set the environment to our liking -- unlike Windlight which we have no control over -- it works.

I am impressed with Sansar's look and the tech. The viewer updates automatically and often but it doesn't take long. I crash now and then but getting back on is quick and easy.

I am not thrilled (meaning I will likely not use it) with the move from a regular forum to Discord. It is busy and cluttered, difficult to follow and generally very testosterone centered with that 20 something vibe.  I haven't found any help there although I have tried.

There is a spiffy little Diagnostics bar (shown optionally) that helps you keep track of your build.


I used it today to watch the change in the build when I uploaded some quarter sim landforms. The default skybox templates are approximate a quarter sim SL area. You can apparently link to another "scene" but I am unclear at this point the difference between scene and experience and if the total prims and calls are for one section of the experience or all. 

Doesn't matter. I am so not there yet!

very happy with the atmosphere and how the sky and hills seem to coexist in the same distance plane. 
Uploading an old quarter sim sized hilly area from Avination (don't even remember building it LOL; thank you SEARCH) I found it of course too heavy for my taste. It wasn't bad mind you but I wanted something bordering on low poly (that of course depends on one's definition).

After lots of testing and fiddling and lowering the vertices by a bunch I had a pretty good looking circle of mid distance hills. I watched the numbers on diagnostics as I uploaded different versions and ended up with one that only added 12 "prims"(?) to the mix. That would do nicely.  It isn't perfect but it is the FEEL of the place that I am after. I don't need to see every speck of dirt or tiny crevasse. 

Going back and forth between edit and building mode I noted that even though the diagnostics would lead one to believe there would just be a small change, it was taking longer. Not tons, but longer.  This SEEMS to suggest that very large items will slow down the load time -- over smaller ones -- no matter how low poly.

I am pleased with the rate of my learning in Sansar. Most things that I am doing seem pretty natural now. 

Here are a few other tips for those journeying over. 

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Of the things you need to think about if you are planning to upload to Sansar (currently -as we know things change) are:

The default skybox (the photo surround part of a build if you use that) is set VERY bright. So unless you are into blazing hot sunshine with washed out hues, you will want to turn that down.

Objects upload automatically with shine. This is called "roughness" for whatever reason. A small 2x2 or 8 x 8 graphic of plain blank white uploaded in that slot will fix the issue. Grayish will give you some shine --- etc. 

I personally don't think it is a good idea o upload normal maps at full size. I cut mine to 25% most of the time and they still look good.

There are apparently issues with alphas. I haven't seen any on my uploads, but watch for that.

There are a variety of ways to upload the textures with your mesh. Standard works for most things. Some choices include alpha which you will need if you have any glass or similarly transparent area on your texture plane.

If you find yourself with your camera ALL messed up in Edit mode, DO NOT SAVE. :D; just exit Sansar.  The position of your camera in edit is saved along with your scene.  So leave your view in a somewhat reasonable position as you will be using it as a starting point on your next working visit.


If you are planning to sell on the Sansar Store then careful NAMING of both your file and mesh object are very important. Info on that in the knowledge base. You can edit the text and pictures in any listing but you can not update the mesh. So you need to make a new listing (presumably losing any good reviews).

Sure there are MANY more things that I am happy I now understand, but that's a start.


One Step Back - Day 5

While you CAN move object around with the widget underground :D It only makes sense to set it for easy use inworld


After so VERY many tries I returned my EDIT MODE (rules are different in each mode) viewscreen back to ground level. Oddly in order to get there I had to grab the screen with my left mouse button and drag the complete build seemingly towards me  -- very slowly as it doesn't work all that well.

This may be something leftover from VR and before desktops were more in focus. Whatever the reasoning it is not the least bit intuitive (Really? Drag the screen towards you to move down to ground level?)

At least one navigation trigger on the official graphic available from the viewer entry screen seems to be very wrong --  I can't get anything at all to happen.

So I would say that all in all camera controls are the biggest issue for me. Day 5 and I think (THINK) I am good now. I can cam into a very tiny building around corners and such. But some hints along the way would have helped.  This could likely be a deal-breaker for some folks.

The knowledge base is very informative but there are holes now and then, big ones.

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I spent most of the day redoing my uploads.  I had noted that my  items rezzed with the movement widget in some very odd places -- like under the ground a long ways. I dealt with that thinking that it was just a "beta" thing. If there is any info on this --- especially in the creating mesh object info where it shoud be -- I somehow missed it on numerous readings.

So, for those of you that make mesh, in order to have the object rez properly on the ground with the "move me" widget on top of the mesh (oh so handy) you need to move your upload object to  0 0 0 before exporting. The PHYSICS model doens't want to be at 0 0 0 of course (well that's way too easy), you want it to be placed on top of the main mesh object. That unfortunately is not necessarily 0 0 0 placement (oh my).

Anyway a long and tedious day but everything is fixed. Hallelujah.

I also found out from my mentor  that the reason I couldn't get shadows to shift by moving the sun (small arrows up in the sky that you can get to from the Scene Objects menu if you can't spot them) is because the skybox graphic is set WAY to brightly, hence the sun can't shine because it is already way too bright.   I will work on that another day.

Tomorrow I plan to write out a list of important things content creators should know. I suspect that they are already on YouTube or whatever, but still ---

I am currently, as I type, baking a 2048 x 2048 graphic which takes a VERY long time (remember only one texture per mesh :D).

Rules change. We adapt.

Onward.


LODs and Control

I have plenty to write about today but someone asked a question on the forums and I wrote a tome about the subject and more so taking the quick way out today and pasting that info in. It was a good question and deserves to be chronicled.

Now that you've been doing some building over there, could you please comment on the level of detail system? How much of the work do you do, and how much is done for you? Could we see your building at low-LOD? Thanks.

I can comment although my opinion may change as I get smarter. I have made and uploaded about a dozen things. Some jewelry (that vanity thing) and a home and decor set (new out today at a gacha :D) that will be my first "experience". 

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This is what I am working on now. I am as far out in the default template as I can get. You can see everything that I have placed clearly including a small path light with lantern (you obviously can't see the lantern clearly as it is too far away).

Someone else (SL- Sansar - Cloud Party) mentioned LOD issues but I don't have any. I am guessing (mind you day 5 here) that the issue arises when someone uploads some heavy mesh (unfortunately that seems to plague Sansar too -- even at this early date). The uploader will try and optimize the mesh -- presumably so that a 4000 triangle stool doesn't upload at that obscene number B|.

THAT could certainly cause issues. 
I spotted that feature the first time I uploaded so I turned it off and it stays off unless you turn it on again. MIND YOU (that Universal you) I am FOR that feature. I make pretty low poly mesh, certainly lower than much of that produced in SL or likely Sansar from the screenshots I am seeing) -- not as low a ChinRey's of course, but still very low. 

So, if youf topology is good and your mesh low density it doesn't seem like there is an issue. It uploads well. 
On thing The Lab did in Sansar was to limit the texture loads. The largest png you can upload is 4096 which sounds huge and it is. But you can only upload ONE texture per mesh object (linksets can have more but they have their own issue of no physics (collision there) mesh.  

In fact while it IS a good idea to upload a single texture (fewer calls) you CAN use different textures for your items. THAT I figured out on day six and am fixing this post.  So in reality that 4096 "could" be a good thing (one giant texture for an auditorium say with just one call) but it can also be used for CLARITY (OMG) causing framerates to plummet.  

That's a GOOD thing I think but I am having to remap and sometimes rebake my mesh to get it there. If it is a simple object there would be no issues, but I didn't start out simply, I went for the challenging stuff first LOL.
I am not sure what happens to things on lower graphics settings (just of late (like the last update) you can lower you graphics settings to medium or low) but this seems to be a long time issue from comments that I hear so I am thinking that wouldn't change. 

So YES, you do not declare your LODs on upload or make custom LOD models (I am well-known for avoid that anyway). Again, it all comes down to how well your topology was made for the object you are uploading.  

You still need to upload physics models (optional but I do it on everything as I LIKE furniture you bump into and with no physics model - no bumping AND harder on the system).   I am not sure if you need to align your physics model exactly to your mesh and apply location, rotation and scale but I have been doing it that way and successfully. You can SEE your physics easily in the editing choices by simply turning that on. Very handy.

So I really don't think it is any EASIER to make mesh in Sansar than SL. The rules are slightly different, but the basic rules of game asset mesh still apply --- as they would in any platform.
Hope that was useful info! 

PS. That house and shed (one build) weighs in at 15 in SL so you know it is low poly. The landform which COULD be up to 5000 tris (I think it was tris) is 326 ^^. It uploaded super easily with no changes. I just attached a tiling texture (no tiling though) to it on upload. I may play around with that a bit later as there isn't a normal map (those work MUCH BETTER in SANSAR) and I could try a larger texture for finer detail. But still I was happy with it.  Perfect physics and your feet turn at an angle to the slope (oh my). 

PS2 (so much to say): According to the knowledge base LOD (I don't think it actually mentions LODs in the article) are made automatically dependent on SIZE AND COMPLEXITY (if I am remembering that correctly).  Not exactly sure how that works at this point. My earrings in the photo are very very low poly mesh -- especially for earrings -- from Cloud Party (new textures) and I haven't noted them disappearing at any distance.